Lithium batteries..Opinions/practical experience..??

Remember to factor in temperature. Not only is battery performance reduced by cold, but add to that an engines take longer to get fired up. More cranks + reduced performance. This is more of a problem up north and last year the stock battery simply wasn't up to the job. So far the Yuasa has been excellent and the engine fires up on the button. The real test will be when temperatures drop below freezing though. I think I'll try and get some foam or bubble wrap around mine.

Gilshark said:

My parasitic draw was traced to the regulator, I’m not entirely sure what that is but draw dropped from 35mA to 8mA on replacement. Just a thought.

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Ok, so quick question. How did you go about discovering that? Did you just take it in to a shop, or did you go around with and test the draw in different areas? If so, where did you look exactly to find out it was the regulator?! I've got my new battery ready to install, but I'd like to take care of this before I ruin another one!

Gilshark said:

My parasitic draw was traced to the regulator, I’m not entirely sure what that is but draw dropped from 35mA to 8mA on replacement. Just a thought.

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In my case, I don't think it is the regulator rectifier because the battery is charging just fine... if it wasn't then the regulator rectifier would be a likely culprit. My problem is that once the battery gets its full charge, it's loosing it quickly... something is causing a parasitic draw.

AK Mike said:

In my case, I don't think it is the regulator rectifier because the battery is charging just fine... if it wasn't then the regulator rectifier would be a likely culprit. My problem is that once the battery gets its full charge, it's loosing it quickly... something is causing a parasitic draw.

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With a parasitic leak it doesn't mean that the battery won’t take a charge when the bike is running, necessarily.

in the previous quoted leak rate of 35mA, the standard 8AH batrery would be fully drained in under 10 days - and you’d get a voltage drop that would prevent starting well before that.

You can check by removing fuse 1 and sticking an ammeter between the contacts. If you are getting significant current flow there is your problem! Do the same with fuses 2, 7, and 8 to ring out the hot circuits that aren't isolated by the ignition switch. Add up the total amperage in mA.

The bike standard battery is 8AH, so 8000mAH divided by your total power draw should tell you how long your charged battery will take to be dead. If the maths doesn’t add up, it could be the battery not holding capacity, or the ignition switch not isolating leaving other circuits live.

You may find that checking across the other fuses for current (With the ignition switched off) if there is current flow then the ignition switch may not be isolating correctly, since the other fused circuits should be cold!

It'sNick said:

Ok, so quick question. How did you go about discovering that? Did you just take it in to a shop, or did you go around with and test the draw in different areas? If so, where did you look exactly to find out it was the regulator?! I've got my new battery ready to install, but I'd like to take care of this before I ruin another one!

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Yeah good question. I took it to the shop and they unplugged everything n squence and watched for the drop. I guess could be done at home if you know what you are unplugging!

AK Mike said:

In my case, I don't think it is the regulator rectifier because the battery is charging just fine... if it wasn't then the regulator rectifier would be a likely culprit. My problem is that once the battery gets its full charge, it's loosing it quickly... something is causing a parasitic draw.

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Mine was charging fine too.

Roy Gavin said:

In Oz we can buy SSB lithium batteries which they claim can be charged with any charger used for lead acid batteries.
Which means that the necessary additional circuitry is in the battery , not in some special charger.
Always puzzled me how a battery which needed a special charger could work on the same crude old charging systems on bikes which have been virtually unchanged since before the introduction of lithium batteries.
I assume similar batteries are for sale elsewhere, perhaps under a different brand name, and for me would be a safer bet that batteries which need a special charger, although it seems that most who try try the, batterers which need a special charger on the Hima claim to have no problems.
The Hima will take a 150x87x105 battery so finding one the right size is not a problem, but the LH positive might be.
I added a heavier earth strap at the same time, stock is unbelievably small!

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Hi Roy, could you please let me know which SSB Battery you went with. Would you buy that again? Or go back to AGM? I’m also in Aus, down on the Surfcoast in Victoria and have a 2020 model and the battery isn’t filling me with confidence. Thanks Tom

Decided against a Lithium, went for the SSB VTX9-BS " V Spec High Performance AGM battery."
Paid $90- at my local Mt Barker M/Cs , only type he stocks and he was happy to demonstrate that it had full volts before I bought it.
I don't trust shipping companies to handle a battery properly, but if you do the MX store has them .
SSB do a cheaper lower spec AGM which some folk sell at the same price, so beware!
It replaced a (sometimes) budget priced Katana , which the PO had fitted.
They are made by Yuasa and it was still working fine after around 25,000km but I needed a battery for a bike I am preparing to sell , and I don't like waiting for the battery to fail!, so the Hima got the new one!

We have a Shorai in Mrs. Mudds Enfield. We're pleased as punch with it.

Roy Gavin said:

Decided against a Lithium, went for the SSB VTX9-BS " V Spec High Performance AGM battery."
Paid $90- at my local Mt Barker M/Cs , only type he stocks and he was happy to demonstrate that it had full volts before I bought it.
I don't trust shipping companies to handle a battery properly, but if you do the MX store has them .
SSB do a cheaper lower spec AGM which some folk sell at the same price, so beware!
It replaced a (sometimes) budget priced Katana , which the PO had fitted.
They are made by Yuasa and it was still working fine after around 25,000km but I needed a battery for a bike I am preparing to sell , and I don't like waiting for the battery to fail!, so the Hima got the new one!

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Much appreciated

Have used lithium ion batteries on previous bike builds, not on my Himalayan. They do require a special charger otherwise you can build up too much heat in the battery and it will explode. (That's a nice thought while riding with the battery under your seat). Stopped using when I saw a car catch fire and literally burn to the ground when the lithium ion batteries overheated in the engine compartment and fuel ignited. I also like the simplicity when travelling of using a regular charger, if stranded someplace needing a charge.

caferider48 said:

Have used lithium ion batteries on previous bike builds, not on my Himalayan. They do require a special charger otherwise you can build up too much heat in the battery and it will explode. (That's a nice thought while riding with the battery under your seat). Stopped using when I saw a car catch fire and literally burn to the ground when the lithium ion batteries overheated in the engine compartment and fuel ignited. I also like the simplicity when travelling of using a regular charger, if stranded someplace needing a charge.

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Always wondered, I know probably has been previously discussed in detail; but still can't get my head around how a lithium battery needs a special 'trickle charger', but is ok with a standard bike/ car ancient technology (alternator /rectifier duo) that feeds it mega volts Amps whatever, with no dramas. ???

Most of car batteries are lead-acid, a different chemistry from the graphite/lithium combination. In some failure events, lithium-ion cells can undergo thermal runaway, which can result in the release of flammable gases that pose fire and explosion hazards for the compartment housing the cells. The specialized chargers limit the potential for thermal runaway.

Just installed my replacement battery and added an Anderson jump/charge point for future. I’ll be making a set of jumper cables with Anderson connector for my car in case I need to jump/charge (power off of course), and adding an Anderson to SAE pigtail connector for trickle charge when I get one and for ancillary power (USB) which I’ll add later. I’ll probably also make up and carry an Anderson plug with short bare cable ends should I ever need a jump when out in the woods. Hope the pics help. I bought the Anderson main loom online from custom_cables on eBay and have added the sketch in case others interested. Ps I found it useful to put a bit of cardboard under each battery terminal nut to hold it “up” while fixing it all together. Any thoughts on what I’ve done appreciated. But it seems fine and I can easily access the Anderson point under the pillion for now, to check battery charge with a multimeter.

After the factory battery went caput I went with the ATZ-10 (I already had a megaboost tender so no issues there). My primary driver was the additional power and the restart feature (had no issues after inadvertently draining the battery unlike the poster with the ATZ-7 - restart feature worked like a charm). It will be a year come October (put several thousand miles since the swap).

Lithium Ion batteries are marvellous. Light weight, incredible cranking current, etc... But they aren't without their issues. The often need to be "woke" by turning the key on for minute or so in cold weather (below 4C), and they will not survive periods of storage below 10 volts. Parasitic key off draw will ruin a Lithium Ion battery. Installing a Lithium Ion battery in a bike with parasitic key-off draw is a bad idea.

A charger designed for MF batteries will run the battery through a drain/charge/float cycle over time. Apparently this is hard on Lithium Ion batteries.

The common opinion these days is that you must use a charger designed for Lithium Ion batteries on a Lithium Ion battery, or you run the risk of a battery fire when the battery is installed on your bike.

In my 24 years as a mechanic, I always found the regulator/rectifier to be the culprit in parasitic key-off draw issues.
Some bikes have a certain amount of key-off draw for security systems, clocks, radios, etc.... This is normal for those particular bikes.

To test for parasitic key-off draw:

1. Turn the key off.
2. Remove the ground lead from the battery.
3. Install a multimeter set to the DC mA function between the ground strap and the battery ground post (the polarity of the meter leads isn't critical, it's simply the number that matters).
4. Look for current draw. Typical parasitic draw through a defective reg/rectifier is often around 0.2-0.3 mA.
5. Unplug the reg/rectifier and see if the draw goes away.

Why is the reg/rectifier often the problem? The diodes in the rectifier are wired in reverse-bias to the battery at all times. The battery is constantly trying to force current through them in the reverse-bias direction, 24/7. Sometimes the diode(s) deteriorate over time, especially on cheaply made reg/rectifiers.

If you ever install a battery backwards, the battery will try and dump massive current through the diodes in the forward-bias direction in the few milliseconds before the fuse pops. The "depletion zone" in the diode(s) may be damaged. When you replace the fuse and re-install the battery correctly, current will now trickle through the diode(s) in the reverse direction, thus draining your battery over time.

Roy Gavin said:

In Oz we can buy SSB lithium batteries which they claim can be charged with any charger used for lead acid batteries.
Which means that the necessary additional circuitry is in the battery , not in some special charger.
Always puzzled me how a battery which needed a special charger could work on the same crude old charging systems on bikes which have been virtually unchanged since before the introduction of lithium batteries.
I assume similar batteries are for sale elsewhere, perhaps under a different brand name, and for me would be a safer bet that batteries which need a special charger, although it seems that most who try try the, batterers which need a special charger on the Hima claim to have no problems.
The Hima will take a 150x87x105 battery so finding one the right size is not a problem, but the LH positive might be.
I added a heavier earth strap at the same time, stock is unbelievably small!

Click to expand...

There are two types: Lithium Ion which can overheat and explode if using the wrong charger and the Lithium Iron Phosphate where it would be safe to use.

Good to know.

caferider48 said:

There are two types: Lithium Ion which can overheat and explode if using the wrong charger and the Lithium Iron Phosphate where it would be safe to use.

Lithium Iron Phosphate Vs. Lithium-Ion: Differences and Advantages

Advances in battery technologies has placed lithium chemistry at the fore front for being the best power source for high energy use in portable devices.

blog.epectec.com

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No mention of ion or anything else in my post, just Lithium, and there are more than two types of Lithium batteries.
And I made no mention because I suspected that if I did someone would come along and tell me it was wrong!
But how many types are sold for use in motorcycles is another question .
Or fitted as OEM by bike manufacturers.
I never pay too much attention to unverified links.
There is usually more than one answer to the same question, so if I need to know something important a decent search , including Wiki , is called for.
And I totally disregard Utube.

caferider48 said:

There are two types: Lithium Ion which can overheat and explode if using the wrong charger and the Lithium Iron Phosphate where it would be safe to use.

Lithium Iron Phosphate Vs. Lithium-Ion: Differences and Advantages

Advances in battery technologies has placed lithium chemistry at the fore front for being the best power source for high energy use in portable devices.

blog.epectec.com

Click to expand...

Interesting article, quite informative.
Battery technology is changing all the time.
Wonder what the weight difference will be between similarly spec’d lithium iron phosphate and AGM batteries would be (if LIP are heavier than lithium ion type)?
Or are all current bike lithium batteries LIP type ?