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Best /cost effective suspension improvement?

JohnWE

Finally made it
Location
New Mexico
Want to improve my ride.

2021 Hima.

Completely stock suspension, what should/can I do to improve handling and ride?

Ridden solo on mostly local 2 lane roads with some gravel and dirt in northern New Mexico. 85-90% paved vs dirt.

Cost is a factor but not the most important.

And since no tech discussion is complete without one, new tire reccos also sought…

Thanks.
 
Depends how much you want to spend.
Best value and cheapest option - for front forks : fit some preload adjusters and change the fork oil for something with a viscosity rating between 20 & 30. ( SW rating on fork oil is not relevant its the viscosity rating) if you can only find cheap fork oil that doesn't have a viscosity rating go for max SW5 . Take the forks off, put them upside down and pump them at least 10 times to evacuate the existing oil. Rebuild the fork and fill to approx 450ml. Set your preload with you fully kitted out to about 30% These forks are and will always be 'old' tech, so dont expect too much, but with good lightweigh oil and stock springs these forks are pretty good for what they are.
Rear monoshock is a different story, but on a budget, the cheapest option is to strip and re-grease all the linkages and rear swing arm bearings, then set the sag with the adjustment ring to around 30%. There are many people out there very happy with the existing set up. After that there are many great ( and not so great ) options: rear is always changing the monoshock unit and sometimes the dog bones to raise or lower ride height . Front is usually emulators and spring change, or modified fork piston and spring change.
As for tyres, 90% paved 10% gravel/hard pack, stick with stock Ceats, there's nothing wrong with them and are actually pretty good on dry or wet roads.
For info, after multiple changes on my front fork set up ( including YSS emulators) I have eventually ended up with a complete Zedling front forks internals (Zedling modified fork piston, Zedling spring, 25 viscosity oil, preload cap, and on the rear a Zedling monoshock with 200mm travel and HMC 140mm dog bones. The Zedling stuff was made for my specs and usage. FWIW it works really well for me, the front and rear feel balanced and work in harmony together. Others report their front and rear YSS set ups work well for them, many swear by racetech gold valves and spring set ups. Theres even folks saying Ohlins are the best, but I've never seen any reports were somebody has actually fitted them to a Himalayan. So its all very individual choice, but on a budget refer back to the beginning. If the rear shock is toast, on a budget, buy a replacement one from india.
 

Best /cost effective suspension improvement?​


Fork oil gets my vote.
Agree - but to a large extent it does depend on where you ride and what you’re trying to achieve. For me (90% bumpy tarmac back roads) I like a fairly soft compliant front end, and ended up with a 7.5 weight fork oil with standard springs, great for me on the roads but occasionally it bottom's out a bit too easily on my rare and pretty inept attempts at off road. I’ve left the rear alone for now as the damping seems to be quite good, especially when loaded with camping gear (80+35kg total) on pre load 5 or 6.
 
If it's bottoming out, that's a compression issue, could be less oil than there should be?
You may also find going with a lighter oil to 450ml will improve/speed up the rebound and that will help. FYI thicker oil makes no difference to compression it just slows down rebound.
 
If you want to tune compression, you can drill the compression holes in your fork dampers larger or add a second set of holes starting smaller and going larger over time until you get the compression damping you're looking for. This is labor intensive but you don't need to pull the fork tubes from the lowers to do it. If you drill too large, just braze or solder the holes shut.

Or drop ~$50 on some V-Twin Mfg. cartridge emulators from ebay, listed for Harley Davidson models with 41mm forks and read everything Racetech has to say about tuning Cartridge Emulators. This route is fairly cheap and you'll get a good education along the way.

I have read in many, many places that ATF, automatic transmission fluid, which in the past was recommended for use in forks by many motorcycle manufacturers (before oil formulation technology caught up) has an equivalent performance to 7.5 weight fork oil.
And while it isn't as cheap as it used to be, it's still cheaper than fork oil if you want to keep costs down.
 
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7W fork oil is generally between 20 to 30 cst ( depending on the manufacturer), which puts in in the right place for good rebound performance. ATF is generally between 35 to 50 cst, which puts it in the 10W to 15W range of most fork oils.
With regards additional holes in fork pistons below is the stock piston next to my Zedling piston with 2 extra holes at the base, this is coupled with a longer 2 stage main spring, 25cst oil and a preload adjusters to set the forks to around 30% sag.
 

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If it's bottoming out, that's a compression issue, could be less oil than there should be?
You may also find going with a lighter oil to 450ml will improve/speed up the rebound and that will help. FYI thicker oil makes no difference to compression it just slows down rebound.
Thanks - I didn’t know the oil weight doesn’t affect compression - I really should read up on how forks actually work. Iirc I used 430ml in ea ch leg, after a complete and proper drain.
 
Thanks - I didn’t know the oil weight doesn’t affect compression - I really should read up on how forks actually work. Iirc I used 430ml in ea ch leg, after a complete and proper drain.
Put a bit more oil in. Shpuld be around 455ml to spec. I would advise about 20ml in each leg to bring you up to 450ml, that could cure your bottoming out issue and is an easy fix.
 
Want to improve my ride.

2021 Hima.

Completely stock suspension, what should/can I do to improve handling and ride?

Ridden solo on mostly local 2 lane roads with some gravel and dirt in northern New Mexico. 85-90% paved vs dirt.

Cost is a factor but not the most important.

And since no tech discussion is complete without one, new tire reccos also sought…

Thanks.
I would say, by far, keeping the correct tire pressure and airing down (lower psi) for offroad. It makes a huge difference. With the Himmy stock setup, most changes are for fun or start you off down the rabbit hole.
 
...most changes are for fun or start you off down the rabbit hole.
^^^this^^^^

On my Interceptor I run 22psi in my Shinko 244s in all conditions, they handle everything so well. Sunday's ride was with 2 friends on a darksided GL1800 and an 810cc CB750K2 with Avons. Everyone is always surprised how well my bike handles with these tires.
 
Most cost-effective thing I can think of to improve your ride after fork service is to get nice tires, have them aired proper, and not sit in the saddle too hard.

Legs make great suspension, pair them up with some handlebar risers and yall will laugh at speedbumps and potholes 😁
If you can see them coming! Riding forest roads with lots of trees can make that a dicey proposition!

As for suspension changes, I went down the proverbial rabbit hole. Was it worth it? Absolutely, but it isn't cheap....
 
Thanks - I didn’t know the oil weight doesn’t affect compression - I really should read up on how forks actually work. Iirc I used 430ml in ea ch leg, after a complete and proper drain.

Oil doesn't readily compress, the air above the oil does.
How high or how low the oil is effects the volume of air space above it which effects the compression rate of the air and the pressure of the air at various lengths of stroke.
 
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Oil doesn't readily compress, the air above the oil does.
How high or how low the oil is effects the volume of air space above it which effects the compression rate of the air and the pressure of the air at various lengths of stroke.
I know that fluid isn’t compressible, I’ve just assumed that oil is forced through a valve on compression the same as it is on rebound, and the air gap allows for initial movement which is undamped. Gamphy suggested that oil weight doesn’t affect compression damping, however if there’s 2 valves (comp & rebound) it must. As I said, more research required on my part I think. I have had bikes which have had adjustable air pressure forks, which no doubt adds another layer of complication.
 
I know that fluid isn’t compressible, I’ve just assumed that oil is forced through a valve on compression the same as it is on rebound, and the air gap allows for initial movement which is undamped. Gamphy suggested that oil weight doesn’t affect compression damping, however if there’s 2 valves (comp & rebound) it must. As I said, more research required on my part I think. I have had bikes which have had adjustable air pressure forks, which no doubt adds another layer of complication.
Your forks are nothing like that diagram, that's a cartridge fork set up. Your forks are similar to this set up. we just have a fork piston ( fork damper) with 2 big holes (one on each side) in the bottom and one tiny hole at the top. 1751600426300.png

Your spring compresses when you hit a bump, that compression action is slowed down by forcing the oil through the 2 big holes at the bottom, how fast it compresses is determined by the size of the big holes that allow the fluid to pass through, this is the damping action on compression. Air compression, the air gap at the top of the forks has a very small affect on compression, but is negligible with our fork set up, the air gap left at the top of the forks is to allow space for the oil to travel into when the forks are compressed and the whole volume is reduced - too little air gap and the forks cant compress to their full extent because there is no room for the oil to travel into, its all low pressure stuff,( under this low pressure, oil is not really compressible). Under fork compression the viscosity (thickness and fluidity) of the oil is not much of a factor because the holes are big enough to allow easy passage of the oil.

Once your forks have stopped compressing, the spring wants to push back and extend your forks, but the oil in the upper chamber is slowing down how fast the spring can push the forks open, because the oil can only pass through the tiny hole at the top of the damper rod, this damping action is your rebound damping. The viscosity of the fork oil very much affects how quickly the oil can pass through this tiny hole and therefore affects the rebound speed.

Our fork set up is a balance by how strong the spring is, how quickly the spring compresses, how easy it is for oil to flow up on compression and how easy it is for the oil to flow back down on rebound. Harris did a pretty good job finding the middle ground.

First thing , before anything else, buy a set of preload adjusters of Amazon/Ebay and set you fork sag for yourself with all your gear on to about 60mm. then give them a try, it might be all you needed to do!

Next point to start is with oil viscosity, Use an oil with a viscosity around 25, this will slightly quicken the rebound, making the forks feel at a bit more reactive, but use enough oil, too little and your forks will bottom out too easily, too much and your forks will stiffen up too much when you hit a bump. The magic number on our forks is 450 - 455ml (but make sure the forks are completely empty, by fully pumping them at least 10 times, because of the fork piston seals and the position of the bottom holes in the damper rod, they can retain up to 50ml of oil and you would never know).

Others have mentioned that you can experiment by adding more holes at the bottom of the damper rod to aid faster fluid flow under compression, but if you make it too easy for the oil to pass out of the bottom chamber, your spring may not be damped enough and it will compress your forks very quickly, your forks will feel very soft, but then you need to find the balance point for this on rebound.

If after sag setting and oil change you still feel you want your forks to be a bit more compliant, then add 2 more 3mm holes in the bottom of the piston rod about 15 mm above the two big ones. That will slightly quicken compression, but the 25cst oil will balance that by slightly quickening rebound. With stock springs thats about all you can do.

NEVER EVER add more holes to the top, or make the existing rebound hole any bigger (the tiny hole at the top). The only way to adjust rebound damping on our stock fork set up is by changing the viscosity of the oil, this determines how quickly the oil can pass back down to the bottom chamber, through this tiny hole, as the spring is extending , this is rebound damping, too quick and you have a pogo stick, too slow and the forks cant get back to the set length before the next bump (so don't use something like 20W fork oil, its simply not viscous enough for our basic damper tube set up.

If your still not happy, then go with somebody like Racetech for springs, emulators and oil, at this point you will be drilling bigger holes in the bottom of the damper rod because the emulator takes over oil flow duties for compression , but be honest about yourself and your usage when determining which spring and emulator set up, its a pricey set up but have heard a few really good reports, there are also reports of folks saying the set up was too stiff (I suspect they may not have been totally honest in their set up and usage , perhaps they though they were more MX than trail?, Or maybe the emulators are just not set right, dunno). There are other suppliers such as YSS but the springs are not bespoke to you and have very mixed reports. If your going pro set up and pro spend, RaceTech, the alternative could be the Ohlins cartridge set up, but dont know if its still available or at what costs? many swear that Ohlins is the Daddy.

For info, my set up is a drilled damper piston, different and longer springs, 25cst oil and preload adjuster, it (in my opinion) is significantly better than stock and or YSS emulator and stock spring set up, I have 2 sets of forks (did have 3) but sold the stock set up. I've had all 3 set up on my bike a week apart to help me determine which was best, current bespoke set up is best by far, but second was stock with preload adjuster and 25cst oil, very similar to the YSS emulator set up and a lot cheaper (my current set up is also cheaper than YSS emulators, in my region).

Read the suspension bible by race tech, I did a link to it on this forum, just can't remember which post, however it's easy to find online.

Hope that helps.
 
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