DNA Filter - any info please.

[QIbHom]

My US bike had a cat. I believe they are necessary to meet US emissions standards.

 

[scott_650]

My US bike had a cat. I believe they are necessary to meet US emissions standards.

De-catting is a thing in the RE world since RE makes it fairly simple to do with their current bikes. All the J 350 versions have a catalytic converter from the factory - removing it from the Meteor/Classic/Bullet is a very simple process, unbolt the exhaust system, swap in the straight-through replacement section (the English translation for what they call it in India is a “bend pipe” - no idea why) and bolt everything back together. Some riders claim this both improves - makes louder/deeper - the exhaust sound and the bike’s performance.

The previous owner of my bike removed the cat but included it in the box of optional and take-off parts included in the sale. In my experience it did neither, I like the exhaust sound better with the cat in place and I couldn’t feel any difference in performance with it removed. It does shed some weight - a pound or so I’d say but I didn’t weigh the parts so maybe more maybe less.

If riders like their bikes better de-catted no worries, it’s their bike and their ride - my only caveat is if you live in an area where bikes a subject to periodic inspection, including emissions testing, you may have issues passing the inspection without the cat con in place.

 

[scott_650]

The Euro 5 (European countries) standards are stricter than India, this is the limiting factor that means the J350's are at the reliable power limit from what is a low revving, two valve air cooled 350 that runs relatively lean & hot, all characteristics against a "power making" engine. RE even incorporated an exhaust valve, spark plug oil cooling circuit in the head to help cool things & the reason (I believe) a synthetic oil is specified as that's a brutally hot area.

Any more reliable power needs liquid cooling, & better still higher revs. Of course ignoring emissions is a way of getting a bit more power but these engines like you say are designed as a "unit", it's unlikely bolting something on is going to make much of a positive difference.



By West I assume you mean USA?
The Euro 5 bikes are made for Europe, as stated above making more power will either mean not meeting the strict standards or loosing reliability.
RE will continue to produce more powerful engines for a given cc, but they will slowly morph into something similar to what's already out there offered by other manufacturers, higher revving, multi valve liquid cooled engines.
Hopefully RE will keep making "cooking" engines like the J350's though.

.

I’m going to disagree to a point. Other manufacturers build air-cooled singles that make more - in some cases much more - power per CC than the RE 350’s make and still meet standards. If RE saw their export market for the 350 as important as their domestic market and the bike needed more power to sell up to their expectations I have no doubt they could - with relatively minor changes - make more power and still comply with Euro5 and other standards. The J 350 is in a very mild state of tune, by design, but a bit more compression, a bit more valve lift, maybe a bit more displacement and a different ignition curve would most likely yield an easy 3-5 additional HP - maybe even more. Just enough to let the bikes top out around 90MPH which would be just enough for the “Western” market. But sales in our market are tiny compared to sales in India and evidently RE sells as many export 350s as they care to so we’ll not see bikes tuned specifically for us like we did back in the late 50s through early 70s. All the British brands had models they built especially for NA that had higher performance than the versions sold in the UK (some of which lost a fair amount of reliability and ridabilty but we “power mad Yanks” didn’t care - motorcycles were more about performance than transportation even then).

Again, I’m not complaining, I love my Classic! Of all the dozens of bikes I’ve owned over the years it’s easily the most satisfying bike out of the bunch. It fits the way I ride these days perfectly - at my age I’m well past needing to go further and/or faster - but I can’t help wishing for just a bit more. When the Classic/Bullet 650 rolls out it’s going to be a tough decision about whether I keep the 350 or trade it in - the Shotgun has already made me think about it since it’s already pretty much a “cut-down” version of a Classic/Bullet. Guess RE knows just what they’re doing after all, potentially making 2 sales instead of one!

 

[Carl 350]

Other manufacturers build air-cooled singles that make more - in some cases much more - power per CC than the RE 350’s make and still meet standards.

While that's of course very true comparing apples to oranges, if we compare apples to apples what other 350cc ish bike available new that is relitevely low revving, two valve air cooled (without an oil cooler) & Euro 5 is producing more power?
If RE could have made more reliable power while still meeting Euro 5 I'm positive they would have.

a bit more valve lift, maybe a bit more displacement and a different ignition curve would most likely yield an easy 3-5 additional HP - maybe even more. Just enough to let the bikes top out around 90MPH

This is where I'm going to respectfully disagree. My take on the J350 is that it is already running in the upper temperature limits and it's hp/power is by design for reliability, any more power would reduce that or require more cooling, an oil cooler for example.

The quick (for the time!) bikes of the past like a Norton 350 that could get 35hp didn't adhere to emissions like the J350's have to, if a Norton was leaned out enough to pass emissions it'd melt very shortly afterwards.......

.

 

[Bluestrom13]

If RE could have made more reliable power while still meeting Euro 5 I'm positive they would have.

Agreed
And Honda - Their CB350 H'Ness is another Indian produced 350, is another 20hp / 70mph single. But sales restricted to home market and SE Asia.

Air cooled single cylinder Euro5 / Euro5+ survivors in UK / Europe are few, other than 125cc.
J350, Benelli 400, Mash 250, (& possibly 400 ). So no powerhouse singles here, in 2024+
-----------------------------------------------

The quick (for the time!) bikes of the past like a Norton 350 that could get 35hp didn't adhere to emissions like the J350's have to

If we are discussing road (not race Norton 350) then , like 350 Bullets, only 18hp is nearer the mark.
Velocette Viper - 27hp, was a quick road 350 in its time.
BSA DB32 (350 Gold Star) had a claimed 32hp, in standard trim, if there was such a thing.

Having run a number of 350s in my youth, I think rose tinted glasses come into play when reminiscing.
I rode BSA, Ariel, AJS, Matchless and Norton singles. All 75mph max. machines.
(I never owned a Viper. ).

 

[Carl 350]

Air cooled single cylinder Euro5 / Euro5+ survivors in UK / Europe are few, other than 125cc.
J350, Benelli 400, Mash 250, (& possibly 400 ). So no powerhouse singles here, in 2024+

Yeah, it's a really small (western) market & for good reason, as shown on the various forums a lot of owners are unhappy about power, bought it on looks then hated it on power! Many have spent £$€ "hotting" the engine up then got a more powerful bike instead....

If we are discussing road (not race Norton 350) then , like 350 Bullets, only 18hp is nearer the mark.
Velocette Viper - 27hp, was a quick road 350 in its time.
BSA DB32 (350 Gold Star) had a claimed 32hp, in standard trim, if there was such a thing.
Having run a number of 350s in my youth, I think rose tinted glasses come into play when reminiscing.

I picked the hp of the Manx Norton (to look up) based on reputation as a quick 350 (or 500).
You've got way more old British single experience than me, it's interesting to hear a real world road going top speed of 75.


I love my J350, the most relaxing bike I've owned and great for the twisty back roads.
Would I like it for commuting? A quiet road commute it'd be fine, a busy one I'd probably want more power for dueling with the mad rush.

.

 

[QIbHom]

I love my J350, the most relaxing bike I've owned and great for the twisty back roads.
Would I like it for commuting? A quiet road commute it'd be fine, a busy one I'd probably want more power for dueling with the mad rush.

That is one of the reasons I've done a few mods, I do commute on busy roads. With insane drivers from all around the world.

A 650 would be perfect for me. If the SM had been out when I was buying, I'd have bought it (rode cruisers for years).

I love Flea and the attention she gets. She fun to ride. But I do miss being able to put friends on the back for a ride. And, yes, I'm shallow, the dead speedo issue is pissing me off. Still can't believe someone hasn't come out with an aftermarket speedo that doesn't die if the sun comes out.

 

[OREO]

I'm with you QlbHom, I bought the 350 Meteor because I was impatient waiting for the Super Meteor 650.
When asked at the dealership they stated that they had no idea when the SM's would show up.
2 weeks later I see them on their web site... I believe they wanted to sell what they had.
I like the 350 it handles great. I will get used to the lack of highway speed. In 3 miles of where I live the speed limits are
65-75 mph and no one drives less than 20 over. I just keep telling myself they can just go around me.

 

[Dabrakeman]

I'm with you QlbHom, I bought the 350 Meteor because I was impatient waiting for the Super Meteor 650.
When asked at the dealership they stated that they had no idea when the SM's would show up.
2 weeks later I see them on their web site... I believe they wanted to sell what they had.
I like the 350 it handles great. I will get used to the lack of highway speed. In 3 miles of where I live the speed limits are
65-75 mph and no one drives less than 20 over. I just keep telling myself they can just go around me.

What is your current trade in value (for a SM650) at the dealership? I can't imagine a 350 in Nevada. Maybe just me...

 

[OREO]

I may give the Meteor to my daughter as she sold her Honda Rebel 250 a few months back instead of doing a trade. Nevada dealerships are brutal . They give you nothing for your trade and when you add tax,title, destination, and everything else that they can tack on the price becomes almost double the asking price. Example is I traded a 2014 Suzuki Burgman 200 with 6k miles. The most they would give me was $1200.
So my 2023 Super Nova Meteor ($3995 asking price) out the door price ended up costing me $5500 including the trade. So if I add the trade value on the price is $6700.
I went to buy a Honda Navi 2023 with a list price of $1807. Out the door cost ended up at $3300. I didn't buy it.
They do ask a premium price for Motorcycles with little to no wiggle room. By the way my neighbor bought a new Harley a few months ago $61,000 out the door. Not for me anymore.
I guess I shouldn't complain . As the selling dealer said "It is what it is".

 

[Dabrakeman]

I am lucky in my locale since I had within a 150mi radius 4 dealers I pit against each other when buying. The fees varied dramatically between the different dealers. Got my closest dealer to match the best of the four and saved $650 off their initial quote. That was in March of '22 then. Don't know if different now.

 

[OREO]

Sorry to BSA Biker for getting off track of your original post.
Seems like many posts end up this way.

 

[The gardener]

I have noticed on motorcycles of various brands that these air filters only improve or increase the performance of carburetor engines if you adjust the jets at the same time. In fuel-injected engines, this is only possible with special injection software. The air filter alone is often just louder and the engine runs too lean due to the increased air supply, which is actually harmful to the valves and cylinder head. I have been doing this with my Moto Guzzi bikes with carburettor for over 40 years, the fuel-injected engines need a lot more adjustment to run smoothly. I have a K&N air filter in the Honda scooter, but this engine is only Euro 2. The BMW also has a K&N air filter, but no catalytic converter and no emissions standard at all, this bike runs so well. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H8Vdd0gCA-E

 

[UsernameTaken]

I have noticed on motorcycles of various brands that these air filters only improve or increase the performance of carburetor engines if you adjust the jets at the same time. In fuel-injected engines, this is only possible with special injection software. The air filter alone is often just louder and the engine runs too lean due to the increased air supply, which is actually harmful to the valves and cylinder head. I have been doing this with my Moto Guzzi bikes with carburettor for over 40 years, the fuel-injected engines need a lot more adjustment to run smoothly. I have a K&N air filter in the Honda scooter, but this engine is only Euro 2. The BMW also has a K&N air filter, but no catalytic converter and no emissions standard at all, this bike runs so well. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H8Vdd0gCA-E

It was my understanding that the ECU learns and adapts to the increased airflow. That's the reason for leaving the engine running for 30 minutes after fitting any upgrades - so that the ECU can adjust itself.

 

[The gardener]

The lambda-controlled injection always regulates the lambda value, regardless of how much air the engine can take in. This can be too much under certain circumstances, because a certain value cannot be undercut. The ECU learns to compensate for this, but within the framework of the specified software limits. You can deactivate the lambda control with a placebo plug (I installed one on my Himalayan). This in turn means that the engine does not run so close to the knock limit, sounds better and the acceleration is a little bit stronger. All together, my Himalayan is really powerful. Camshaft, lambda plug and booster plug, if I compare the Himalayan with my SR 500, the two are roughly the same in terms of performance. But the Himalayan runs very smoothly, the Yamaha rumbles more. There are so many things that could be adjusted, from FUELX PRO PLUS to injection nozzles, reinforced valves and valve springs and a lot more. I estimate my Himalayan to have 29 hp at the rear wheel. It runs so well from 2500-6000 rpm, you don't need more than that. Greetings from Bavaria, Was in the forest today chopping wood, then in the beer garden

 

[Carl 350]

Mistake post.....

 

[Woodstock]

Agreed
And Honda - Their CB350 H'Ness is another Indian produced 350, is another 20hp / 70mph single. But sales restricted to home market and SE Asia.

Air cooled single cylinder Euro5 / Euro5+ survivors in UK / Europe are few, other than 125cc.
J350, Benelli 400, Mash 250, (& possibly 400 ). So no powerhouse singles here, in 2024+
-----------------------------------------------

If we are discussing road (not race Norton 350) then , like 350 Bullets, only 18hp is nearer the mark.
Velocette Viper - 27hp, was a quick road 350 in its time.
BSA DB32 (350 Gold Star) had a claimed 32hp, in standard trim, if there was such a thing.

Having run a number of 350s in my youth, I think rose tinted glasses come into play when reminiscing.
I rode BSA, Ariel, AJS, Matchless and Norton singles. All 75mph max. machines.
(I never owned a Viper. ).

"I rode BSA, Ariel, AJS, Matchless and Norton singles. All 75mph max. machines.
(I never owned a Viper. )."

But what a resumé!

 

[Bluestrom13]

They were nothing special at the time. Just everyday transport.

I do sometimes wonder about their desirability, (read over-value), today....

(And, with modern sealants, the oil at least stays (mainly) on the inside)

 

[2LZ]

They were nothing special at the time. Just everyday transport.

I do sometimes wonder about their desirability, (read over-value), today....

(And, with modern sealants, the oil at least stays (mainly) on the inside)

Yep. It's one of the reasons I was attracted to the BSA's, besides history and the fact they have cool bikes. Everyone has a Triumph here and Norton's are simply out of reach in our market.

 

[BSA Biker]

Yep. It's one of the reasons I was attracted to the BSA's, besides history and the fact they have cool bikes. Everyone has a Triumph here and Norton's are simply out of reach in our market.

Having ridden old bikes when they were not that old, my preference is for the BSA A10/7 pre unit construction twins. Triumphs did nothing for me or Nortons for that matter in those days. Always wanted the Super Rocket 650cc bike.