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M350: Broke Bar-End Bolt -- Any Tips, Tricks, etc.?

wspollack

Well travelled
Location
Niskayuna, NY
I was just starting the process of adding some handguards to my '23 Meteor 350, and I broke the M5 bar-end bolt on the right side while taking it out, using my ratchet and an Allen-in-socket gizmo, lefty-loosey. (I haven't messed with the left side yet, and may abandon this project before I do). My guess is that RE put some permanent threadlocker on that bolt, as they're fond of using excessive threadlocker on bolts, grease on relays, and so forth.

So I now have the bar end disc piece and half a bolt in my possession. Before I start the arduous process of attempting to start a pilot hole for some sort of EZ-out work:

1) Does anyone have any words of wisdom for me (other than, say, "Don't swim in shark-infested waters," "Buy low, sell high," and suchlike)?

2) There seems to be another piece involved here, stuck inside the handlebar. Is anyone familiar with that piece, what it looks like, what its purpose is, etc.?

Some pics ...

What I'm left with:

22429

The seemingly extra piece inside:

22430

A page from the shop manual, which doesn't seem to mention that piece:

22431

Thanks, everyone.
 

smilespergallon

Well travelled
Location
Durham, NC
Yeah, I'd have said before starting that you need a tightly fitting tool and then smooth and even back and forth motion to loosen it up. I found those bolt heads to be made of cheese and end up drilling the head out almost as often as not and then removing the shank with a pair of locking pliers. A decent set of bolts from the hardware store have none of these issues.

The bit inside is part of the RE handlebars and is non-removable in my experience. Its job is to hold those bar ends (and optionally mirrors) on.

I think you might be right about the thread locker being too strong for the job. It would explain all of my experiences with that part.
 

wspollack

Well travelled
Location
Niskayuna, NY
Yeah, I'd have said before starting that you need a tightly fitting tool and then smooth and even back and forth motion to loosen it up. I found those bolt heads to be made of cheese and end up drilling the head out almost as often as not and then removing the shank with a pair of locking pliers. A decent set of bolts from the hardware store have none of these issues.

The bit inside is part of the RE handlebars and is non-removable in my experience. Its job is to hold those bar ends (and optionally mirrors) on.

I think you might be right about the thread locker being too strong for the job. It would explain all of my experiences with that part.
Hey, thanks. I'd never heard of the back-and-forth method of removing bolts.

I'll report back, if I manage to extract the rest of the original bolt (or maybe even if I don't).
 

smilespergallon

Well travelled
Location
Durham, NC
Rocking back and forth can help loosen up bolts are are seized due to corrosion or adhesives. It causes micro-fractures in the structure holding the parts together until finally they start to move. This does NOT work if there is an initial moment of force needed to overcome the adhesion, in which case you want to use many taps until it shifts. But once you have any sort of motion, a gentle back and forth is the best way to get things freed up without snapping bolts since it doesn't build up heat or stress inside the bolt like leaning on the wrench hard and hoping for the best.
 

DaddyJack

Well travelled
Gonna be a witch to get out. Need a Transfer Punch, one with an outside diameter to just slip inside the recess. It'll have a small center punch on the end, slip than into the recess and give it a tap or two. Should give you a punch mark centered on the broken bolt. Now a new drill bit, a little smaller than the minor thread diameter of the bolt, the real puppy's mother will be drilling it straight. A small Angle Tip Punch to clean out the first thread, then a Starter Tap to clean out the rest. Back and forth, cutting only a tiny bit at a time, cleaning often. I worked a few years at a machine shop, if someone brought this job in to me, I'd only take it with a witnessed agreement not to be responsible for damaging the handlebar insert. In that case it might be possible to drill & tap for the next larger bolt, depending on the insert and dealing with the oversize new bolt head. I wish I had something better to offer...
 

Woodstock

Well travelled
Location
Woodstock, NY
I was just starting the process of adding some handguards to my '23 Meteor 350, and I broke the M5 bar-end bolt on the right side while taking it out, using my ratchet and an Allen-in-socket gizmo, lefty-loosey. (I haven't messed with the left side yet, and may abandon this project before I do). My guess is that RE put some permanent threadlocker on that bolt, as they're fond of using excessive threadlocker on bolts, grease on relays, and so forth.

So I now have the bar end disc piece and half a bolt in my possession. Before I start the arduous process of attempting to start a pilot hole for some sort of EZ-out work:

1) Does anyone have any words of wisdom for me (other than, say, "Don't swim in shark-infested waters," "Buy low, sell high," and suchlike)?

2) There seems to be another piece involved here, stuck inside the handlebar. Is anyone familiar with that piece, what it looks like, what its purpose is, etc.?

Some pics ...

What I'm left with:

View attachment 22429

The seemingly extra piece inside:

View attachment 22430

A page from the shop manual, which doesn't seem to mention that piece:

View attachment 22431

Thanks, everyone.
I've heard of the threadlocker stripping the mirror threads on an Interceptor. I'm also thinking you were unlucky given I know how meticulous you are and I have seen RE Albany remove those pieces with a screw or impact gun. There are bar-end mirrors that require the bar inserts to be drilled out completely if you want to go that way. smilespergallon or Dool2 have good suggestions.
 

DaddyJack

Well travelled
I have RE bar end mirrors, they are great - less vibration blur and you can see better behind, especially closer behind you because they are a little further out. That's what I vote for!
 

Bluestrom13

Well travelled
Location
...GB...
I think you might be right about the thread locker being too strong for the job.
I've removed the bar end weights on my Himalayan and my friend's Hunter without problem.
I have read on this forum, and other places of this over-strong thread locker, so applied heat with an electric soldering iron tip via the hexagon socket in the screws.
If it made a difference, I'm not sure.....

Over here in UK, the threads in there can get very rusty, very quickly.
 

wspollack

Well travelled
Location
Niskayuna, NY
GOT ER DONE!

Thanks everyone, for all your words of wisdom.

1) Centered hole.

I have a lot of spacers lying around, mostly from mounting extra LEDs on bikes. It turns out that one of them fit nice and snugly in the handlebar end opening:

22472

So I left that in, held it in place with some needle-nose pliers, got a big bit out that just fit inside the spacer, and did a little drilling. This allowed me to start the drilling process pretty much exactly in the center of that extra end piece.

(By the way, my guess now is that the extra end piece is essentially a permanent part of the handlebar. That is, I think that it's welded or hammered in there, or something, so that it forms the base -- way inside a bit -- of the female threads that the end bolt connects with.)

(Oh, also by the way, that end bolt is an M6 bolt; I mistakenly said earlier that it was M5, but what I meant was that it took a 5mm Allen key in its head.)

Here's my centered hole:

22473

2) Did a bunch of drilling.

I switched to smaller bits, then medium bits, then masonry bits, then larger, then smaller, etc., etc. It was slow going, and even required a battery-pack switch. I sprayed a bunch of PB Blaster while I was working.

3) Kept trying some EZ-Outs.

I used all of these at various points (not shown: some masonry bits and some other twist drill bits):

22474

None of the EZ-Outs worked at all. I think the problem was that I was nowhere deep enough when I was messing with them. That is, those female threads in that piece that's inserted into the handlebar end don't go to the end of the handlebar, but are instead just way deep inside.

4) I eventually managed, with a smallish bit, as the Doors sang, to "break on through, to the other side."

5) I then used a larger bit, and got a surprise.


I looked up the value of the proper bit size for an M6 tap (having already located my tap and die set in the garage -- I use that, oh, every three or four years).

As I was working my way up to that bit size, when I had drilled completely through again with that interim bit, I pulled out the drill, in preparation for switching bits, and this is what I saw:

22475

That is, the remaining part of the original bolt -- the part that was left behind, when I broke it -- came out with the drill bit! And the drill was spinning clockwise -- go figure. I mean, I was correctly using the EZ-Outs in a counter-clockwise manner, stuff like that.

(By the way, that now-hollowed-out bolt part is still stuck on that bit. I tried to twist it off using some pliers, but it won't budge. I have 100+ bits, so I just left the bolt on, and put the bit away.)

6) The female threads are still there, and work!

I got out a spare M6 x 1.00 x 20mm bolt -- same size as the two broken pieces seem to amount to -- and (gingerly) worked it into the handlebar end. No problem, and it seems rock solid, plenty of threads catching:

22476

So I put away my tap and die set, without having to use it. And ordered some black M6 cap head bolts from Amazon.

7) I'm done with my handguard project.

I was only half-hearted in my desire for handguards, anyway, and I am not going through all this on the other side. (I actually ordered some handguards earlier this year for my C 400 GT scooter, and wound up taking them off.)

So I am abandoning this project.

These are Bark Busters that I bought from Hitchcock's, because I wanted to make sure that the particular pieces, and the guards themselves, were fit for an M350 (and I trust Hitchock's more than any other outfit).

If anyone wants the never-been-opened set, no reasonable offer refused. I'll be posting an ad tomorrow.

That's all I got.
 

RichardW

Well travelled
Good result but why give up now Bill. At least you could try removing other side bolt which likely won't require bolt breaking torque.

BTW if your drill is reversible (most battery ones are) then use that mode to release remaining bolt from drill bit holding same gently with pliers. It will come off with patience.
 

wspollack

Well travelled
Location
Niskayuna, NY
Good result but why give up now Bill. At least you could try removing other side bolt which likely won't require bolt breaking torque.

BTW if your drill is reversible (most battery ones are) then use that mode to release remaining bolt from drill bit holding same gently with pliers. It will come off with patience.
1) The drill in reverse, with a pliers holding the piece, worked a treat:

22513

Thanks for that.

2) Nope -- and thanks for that suggestion, too, but I'm getting too old to be drilling for hours, still shell-shocked, only sort of just wanted to check out handguards, already vetoed them on my scooter, and so forth. Not going to press my luck, stress myself out -- even with the back-and-forth tip from @smilespergallon -- worrying about the other side.

I'm just going to call it a day, and put the guards up for sale.
 

Woodstock

Well travelled
Location
Woodstock, NY
1) The drill in reverse, with a pliers holding the piece, worked a treat:

View attachment 22513

Thanks for that.

2) Nope -- and thanks for that suggestion, too, but I'm getting too old to be drilling for hours, still shell-shocked, only sort of just wanted to check out handguards, already vetoed them on my scooter, and so forth. Not going to press my luck, stress myself out -- even with the back-and-forth tip from @smilespergallon -- worrying about the other side.

I'm just going to call it a day, and put the guards up for sale.
If you are seeking a replacement fastener, I can look through the bag of assorted bolts.
 

Woodstock

Well travelled
Location
Woodstock, NY
GOT ER DONE!

Thanks everyone, for all your words of wisdom.

1) Centered hole.

I have a lot of spacers lying around, mostly from mounting extra LEDs on bikes. It turns out that one of them fit nice and snugly in the handlebar end opening:

View attachment 22472

So I left that in, held it in place with some needle-nose pliers, got a big bit out that just fit inside the spacer, and did a little drilling. This allowed me to start the drilling process pretty much exactly in the center of that extra end piece.

(By the way, my guess now is that the extra end piece is essentially a permanent part of the handlebar. That is, I think that it's welded or hammered in there, or something, so that it forms the base -- way inside a bit -- of the female threads that the end bolt connects with.)

(Oh, also by the way, that end bolt is an M6 bolt; I mistakenly said earlier that it was M5, but what I meant was that it took a 5mm Allen key in its head.)

Here's my centered hole:

View attachment 22473

2) Did a bunch of drilling.

I switched to smaller bits, then medium bits, then masonry bits, then larger, then smaller, etc., etc. It was slow going, and even required a battery-pack switch. I sprayed a bunch of PB Blaster while I was working.

3) Kept trying some EZ-Outs.

I used all of these at various points (not shown: some masonry bits and some other twist drill bits):

View attachment 22474

None of the EZ-Outs worked at all. I think the problem was that I was nowhere deep enough when I was messing with them. That is, those female threads in that piece that's inserted into the handlebar end don't go to the end of the handlebar, but are instead just way deep inside.

4) I eventually managed, with a smallish bit, as the Doors sang, to "break on through, to the other side."

5) I then used a larger bit, and got a surprise.


I looked up the value of the proper bit size for an M6 tap (having already located my tap and die set in the garage -- I use that, oh, every three or four years).

As I was working my way up to that bit size, when I had drilled completely through again with that interim bit, I pulled out the drill, in preparation for switching bits, and this is what I saw:

View attachment 22475

That is, the remaining part of the original bolt -- the part that was left behind, when I broke it -- came out with the drill bit! And the drill was spinning clockwise -- go figure. I mean, I was correctly using the EZ-Outs in a counter-clockwise manner, stuff like that.

(By the way, that now-hollowed-out bolt part is still stuck on that bit. I tried to twist it off using some pliers, but it won't budge. I have 100+ bits, so I just left the bolt on, and put the bit away.)

6) The female threads are still there, and work!

I got out a spare M6 x 1.00 x 20mm bolt -- same size as the two broken pieces seem to amount to -- and (gingerly) worked it into the handlebar end. No problem, and it seems rock solid, plenty of threads catching:

View attachment 22476

So I put away my tap and die set, without having to use it. And ordered some black M6 cap head bolts from Amazon.

7) I'm done with my handguard project.

I was only half-hearted in my desire for handguards, anyway, and I am not going through all this on the other side. (I actually ordered some handguards earlier this year for my C 400 GT scooter, and wound up taking them off.)

So I am abandoning this project.

These are Bark Busters that I bought from Hitchcock's, because I wanted to make sure that the particular pieces, and the guards themselves, were fit for an M350 (and I trust Hitchock's more than any other outfit).

If anyone wants the never-been-opened set, no reasonable offer refused. I'll be posting an ad tomorrow.

That's all I got.
Good job.
 

jebby

Getting there...
I tried to remove the bolts to put hand guards on, but couldn't budge the bolts so gave up before damageing them. Bought some others and made up brackets to fix them to the bolt that holds the clutch and front brake levers. I would have warned you not to attempt it if i had known. Glad you sort of fixed it in the end.
 

wspollack

Well travelled
Location
Niskayuna, NY
I tried to remove the bolts to put hand guards on, but couldn't budge the bolts so gave up before damageing them. Bought some others and made up brackets to fix them to the bolt that holds the clutch and front brake levers. I would have warned you not to attempt it if i had known. Glad you sort of fixed it in the end.
Hey, no worries, and thanks for the thought (even if a bit late, but I didn't check with you first). Snapping off a bolt every few years helps to keep me (almost) humble, I guess -- good for the soul?

Perhaps future bar-end-bolt removers should combine the heat-with-a-soldering-iron tip from @Bluestrom13 with the back-and-forth tip from @smilespergallon and they might be able to successfully remove the bar-end bolts on an M350.

Me, I had the number wrong: I have 20(!) replacement bolts supposedly arriving this afternoon -- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BFD75H16 -- so if anyone wants one, send a self-addressed stamped envelope.

Oh, and rather than thread-locker, I plan to put anti-seize on the new bolt, just to help ease it in there. I'm not concerned at all if it ever falls out, because the grip is still held in place by the switchgear assembly, i.e., the grip can't just slide off the handlebars if the end bolt and disc are not there.
 
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