My Himi/Guerrilla dilemma

[gmqldau]

What's not there cannot be (or brought) out of adjustment and cannot break down - That's the power of simplicity and a good reason to embrace the limitations it imposes.

Mind you this in a way is why I ended up with the 450: RE have made a wonderful package to the point that it's enticing to embrace what isn't there - additional cylinders & engine displacement, elaborate wind protection, electronic riding aids, additional stopping power and a whole lot of mass that nullifies much of the aforementioned efforts.

Back to the suspension: I think RE did a great job on the setup of the Himi's fork, especially considering it's 'one size fits all'. I bet they nailed the setup on the Guerilla too. Writing this I find myself wanting to test ride one to experience it first hand

Yes the suspension is good, the damper rod setup is a Showa system and you can throw it around happily and it sticks.

 

[sochin]

The only thing that puts me off either of these bikes is the 6000 mile valve adjustment.

They were expensive to get done for me at the dealership.......but I don't care about my warranty anymore so will do my own for the next. An up side is once you get the first two 10000klm valve checks othe rest are at 20000klms intervals. 3 valve checks for 40000klms. Is that more than most other bikes?

My valves were in spec both times so no shims changed. My bike has done 28000klms now and from what I can tell of these bikes and resale prices it is pretty much worthless. I will just keep it and ride it until it stops and I cannot repair it even if I do move onto another bike. These RE's are relatively cheap.

 

[Komet]

They were expensive to get done for me at the dealership.......

My valves were in spec both times so no shims changed.......

See. My dealership paranoia would interpret that as a red flag.
Every DIY video/posting I recall viewing needed some level of re-shimming.

 

[sochin]

See. My dealership paranoia would interpret that as a red flag.

I have little faith in my dealer as well. That said the first valve check was done by another RE dealer during a long trip. The second was done by the dealer that sold me the bike.

The first valve check was done without the bike being totally cold. The second they got me to leave the bike over night so they could do it totally cold the next morning.

Personally I think the whole service thing is a scam and you are better off learning how to maintain your bike yourself as best you can. Save the money and spend it when something really breaks...from my one time experience with RE warranty more than likely you are going to end up paying anyway.....if they have the parts!

I am now over spending a fortune on dealership services to keep my warranty.

 

[Origineelreclamebord]

There's no substitute for your feeling of responsibility about your own safety and longevity of your bike. Not all dealers are bad, or bad at everything. No matter what skill is present, there is a business to run and this brings compromise between how well informed they are on every particular model and what standards they can set keeping in mind what people are willing to pay for. And a good dealer will adjust their services according to the standards the customer is looking for.

For the 6k-mile / 10k-km check, my dealer wanted the bike the day before to ensure a cold check the next day. They shared the valve clearance measurements before and after adjusting. They were all in tolerance, but one valve was within 0.01mm of the minimum tolerance. They made the call to re-shim the valves. Some might say an excuse to charge me a premium, but I appreciate their diligence. Sure if it comes to it down the line, camshafts are not that costly, but I'd rather have them merely swap shims

 

[AtticusCat]

The only thing that puts me off either of these bikes is the 6000 mile valve adjustment. That's not a lot of miles into ownership. It looks like a PITA to do myself requiring special tools and a shim kit etc.

I share your distrust of dealers actually doing a proper job but charging for it anyway. I’ve done all my own spannering for a couple of decades or more and currently have two Royal Enfields both of which I’ve ignored the warranties on and done my own work. I’ve already saved enough in servicing costs to buy one of them over again if needed.

If you’re happy doing basic mechanical stuff then checking the valve clearances isn’t hard at all. No harder than a traditional screw and locknut set up. I bought the cam and crank locking tools cheaply directly from India because they simply weren’t available in the UK at the time but the crank locking tools is easily made filing down a suitable bolt and the cam lock is basically a piece of flat bar stock with a bit of simple shaping, or a 3D print very kindly made and supplied by a member on this forum.

Changing the shims isn’t particularly hard and a shim kit isn’t needed, I just bought the required shims they’re very cheap (8.9 mm diameter, same as KTMs so readily available), it just means the service takes a few more days waiting for the parts to arrive. The couple of videos I’ve seen online covering the process are a decent guide but they do make it look more complicated than it actually is IMO, possibly to big up their content! And if you’re happy to have a go yourself FFS plug the holes to the bottom of the engine before removing bolts and shims (unlike the most recent YouTube example of this). The RE service manual which covers the process in detail is available somewhere on this forum.

 

[Chris 1057]

I have had both of them for over 6 months now, engine and performance wise there is not a lot to separate them, i do ride the Guerilla less on dirt roads, if they are in the direction I am going i would take the Himi as it is far more planted and stable, especially on sandy and roads with larger gravel. I do have no hesitation on taking the Guerilla on good, hard well maintained dirt roads though even with its standard tires. They do both have decat pipes, DNA Air filters and Fuel-x lite fitted. Which bike do I prefer? like asking who is the favorite child!!

The Himi is a bit taller, I am 5'8" and is a bit more top heavy due to its obvious configuration. I have travelled reasonable distances at highway speeds comfortably on both (110-120kph) Have the pannier rails to fit to the Guerilla (waiting for the bags) so the Himi goes on overnight trips at present. The Guerilla with its slightly lower/forward riding position is a lot of fun in the city and on twisty roads. The Himi performed well on a recent 1,500km round trip from Perth to Kalgoorlie in Western Australia, including the Holland Way.

Personally i am not worried about any servicing or maintenance issues, i accept what comes with that (and the cost) when purchasing each bike. Each person to their own, but if i had to make a choice between the 2, i would base it solely on where i was intending to travel most, if it included more than 20%-30% off road I would go for the Himi over the Guerilla. I have them both (and some others) as i wanted the best of both worlds!

 

[Scott Free]

See. My dealership paranoia would interpret that as a red flag.
Every DIY video/posting I recall viewing needed some level of re-shimming.

Perhaps I am an outlier, but when I checked mine at 6000 miles all four were within the specified range. I'm now at 10,900 miles, so I will be doing the 12,000 mile check this spring. I figure there's a 50-50 chance that they will still be OK, given that shim-bucket valve trains often bed-in and then don't require adjustment for a long, long time.

 

[gmqldau]

The wheel does its bit but I think it's also geometry-relatred: the shorter fork + smaller wheel give the Guerilla a smaller headstock angle / less rake & trail. The top yoke is a different number to the Himi too, so they might have played around with that to boot although on pictures they don't look too different, could be to accomodate a different wheel/tire width...

Anyway, I'm not surprised the Guerilla is agile to the point of feeling twitchy (to some). I test rode a Kawasaki Z500 in 2024 and it too turned in very eagerly, in fact it caught me off guard every other corner and I had to put the bike upright to avoid hitting the kerb or the centre of the roundabout on more than one occasion. The bike was such a hoot, it was that very ride that made me realise I wanted a smaller bike! The Guerilla has a longer wheelbase but has the forks even more upright. If the steering angle is anything like the Himi's it should have the turning radius of a well cover Guerilla owners please chime in?

No it doesn't! The steering lock is not overly generous, compared with say a Classic 350 which has a much tighter turning circle. I don't know it their is a published figure or not. The Missenden Flyer on Youtube does a turning circle comparison on his road tests, but I'm not sure if he has done the Guerrilla.

 

[gmqldau]

My three Enfields are serviced by a local one outlet dealership in Brisbane, I bought one bike from them but the other two came from a multi outlet dealership who I wouldn't trust to tie their shoelaces. The dealership that I use only sells RE & Honda and are trusted in the Brisbane biking fraternity.
They have standard price servicing Plus a workshop hourly rate for extras. The minor service - 5000 Km is AUD 299, the intermediate service (including valves on all bikes both locknut & shims id AUD399 and the major service - 20000 Km is (I think he said) AUD699.

 

[sochin]

The minor service - 5000 Km is AUD 299, the intermediate service (including valves on all bikes both locknut & shims id AUD399 and the major service - 20000 Km is (I think he said) AUD699.

My RE dealer for the 5k service is $330. Valve check @ 10000klms that turned out to be in spec (ie no shim change) was done by a dealer in Adelaide and was $577.50.



Second valve check at 20000 was done by my local dealer and was about $460. Their labour was only $315 but they itemised a few parts that they replaced doing the valve check as well as the normal stuff with an oil change etc. I also think there are few things that are supposed to be done at 20k as per the manual that they did not do.....which I will do. Might be wrong but double checking is on my list to do.....thinking coolant or brake fluids are supposed to be replaced or some other things.

 

[Dool2]

Fair bit cheaper in its home country

 

[AltcarStu]

What ever you buy you will have fun they're great play bikes. I have a Guerilla that's done several "I wonder where that trail goes" rides. It's obviously not a trail bike but it's light enough to pick up when you run out of talent, it could do with a lower first gear but then when you're road riding you would be using 2nd to take off.

Personally I would budget for some new tyres the Indian tyres weigh a ton and are twitchy in cooler weather. I have Pirelli Angels which are smashing tyres and suit my not particularly smooth riding style

 

[scott_650]

For what is basically two variations of the same bike the differences between the Himmie and the Guerrilla are fairly significant. If I were deciding between the two it would be a tough choice though the price difference between a tubeless Himalayan and a Guerrilla would buy a very nice windscreen, rack and set of bags. Guess it definitely comes down to how a particular rider fits a particular bike - before I bought my Classic 350 I sat on an original version Himmie and didn't care for the height, but that was just sitting in the showroom which is not the same as on the road.

But when it comes to service I'm not enamored enough with the additional performance of a liquid-cooled, shim-type valve engine to pick one over a simpler screw-and-locknut, air-cooled engine. I've owned both and much prefer the ease of service of the later over the performance - and longer service intervals - of the former. But again, that's a personal preference thing. I'll admit that I really wish RE would have developed a bigger version of the J motor in parallel with the Sherpa motor, it would've been nice to have a choice for a bit more power other than the bigger, much heavier 650 twins without going to a more complex, less owner-friendly engine.

Anyway, to my mind the Guerrilla is more of a blank slate than the touring oriented Himalayan and definitely a bargain in today's market - that the black and gold model is a looker doesn't hurt its case either!

 

[AltcarStu]

For what is basically two variations of the s I'll admit that I really wish RE would have developed a bigger version of the J motor in parallel with the Sherpa motor, it would've been nice to have a choice for a bit more power other than the bigger, much heavier 650 twins without going to a more complex, less owner-friendly engine.

I believe that's not possible with modern emissions and sound regulations but if it had been possible I would have bought a 500cc air cooled 4 valve single in a heartbeat. I had a Honda XBR500 single in the eighties and it only left my ownership when a wall jumped out in front of me.

 

[Scott Free]

No it doesn't! The steering lock is not overly generous, compared with say a Classic 350 which has a much tighter turning circle. I don't know it their is a published figure or not. The Missenden Flyer on Youtube does a turning circle comparison on his road tests, but I'm not sure if he has done the Guerrilla.

It's a perimeter-style frame with a fat-ish tank on top, so I suppose it would be a bit less steering lock than a Classic... but I can't say I have any problems doing tight u-turns on my Himalayan. Can't imagine the Guerrilla being any worse.

 

[Scott Free]

But when it comes to service I'm not enamored enough with the additional performance of a liquid-cooled, shim-type valve engine to pick one over a simpler screw-and-locknut, air-cooled engine. I've owned both and much prefer the ease of service of the later over the performance - and longer service intervals - of the former. But again, that's a personal preference thing. I'll admit that I really wish RE would have developed a bigger version of the J motor in parallel with the Sherpa motor, it would've been nice to have a choice for a bit more power other than the bigger, much heavier 650 twins without going to a more complex, less owner-friendly engine.

They did... kinda. They brought out the LS440, which is a torquier version of the 411 Himma/Scram motor. Not a lot more HP, but reviewers report it is just enough to be very nice. And, while I have not seen details, reports indicate they incorporated a more J-style valve train "to reduce valve train noise." If so, they probably got rid of the biggest major issues with the 411 motor, notably valve stem dishing (due to the adjuster screws bearing directly on the valve stem tips) and the related near-impossibility of accurately setting clearance. Unfortunately this engine only goes into one model (the Scram) and is only sold in a few markets (India, and I am not certain it's available anywhere else).

 

[iowa al]

When I bought the Guerrilla, I knew I wouldn't be doing the valves. My hands feel ok, but I seem to drop a lot of things, especially small parts. I don't want to take a chance. I have a really good dealer or I may not have bought it.

 

[Doboy]

I bought a guerrilla two yrs ago as a winter bike and kept it . I was so surprised..it handled ..it braked..brilliant on fuel and really fun to ride . While my bike was in for a service the dealer said would you like to take a ride on the himalayan ...now I had had my eye on one a while so jumped at the chance..well I have to say my bubble was burst it was a lot higher than the guerrilla a lot heavier and the seat was like a rock . When I got back on the guerrilla and the thought of owning a himalayan had gone for good . The guerrilla is a completely different animal...a great naked roadster that is very underestimated. It's very comfortable great fun to ride and could tour with a set of luggage on . Anyone thinking about one go have a test ride you'll be very surprised..

 

[Scott Free]

For the 6k-mile / 10k-km check, my dealer wanted the bike the day before to ensure a cold check the next day. They shared the valve clearance measurements before and after adjusting. They were all in tolerance, but one valve was within 0.01mm of the minimum tolerance. They made the call to re-shim the valves. Some might say an excuse to charge me a premium, but I appreciate their diligence. Sure if it comes to it down the line, camshafts are not that costly, but I'd rather have them merely swap shims

"Within 0.01 mm of the minimum tolerance" is about the only situation in which you can re-shim an engine that's in spec without putting it out of spec on the loose side. Shims come in 0.05 mm increments, and the acceptable range is only 0.06 mm wide. You should be able to go a long time before it needs another adjustment!

I bought a guerrilla two yrs ago as a winter bike and kept it . I was so surprised..it handled ..it braked..brilliant on fuel and really fun to ride . While my bike was in for a service the dealer said would you like to take a ride on the himalayan ...now I had had my eye on one a while so jumped at the chance..well I have to say my bubble was burst it was a lot higher than the guerrilla a lot heavier and the seat was like a rock . When I got back on the guerrilla and the thought of owning a himalayan had gone for good . The guerrilla is a completely different animal...a great naked roadster that is very underestimated. It's very comfortable great fun to ride and could tour with a set of luggage on . Anyone thinking about one go have a test ride you'll be very surprised..

This is what I am afraid I will discover when I take a Guerrilla for a demo ride. It's supposed to be partly sunny and near 50ºF on Tuesday, and I'm planning to take my Himalayan for a ride. My dealer's been making noise on sociable media about a demo ride event on Tuesday (though with him, just about every day is a demo ride day). I may have to take him up on it. Then again, I'm not sure it's a good idea because I may not like the results...