Rattly Sucker. Driving Me Nuts

[SteveMeteor350]

When I accelerate a little harder on my Meteor 350, it sounds like someone shaking a tin of beens inside a shoebox. Or like 2LZ says, like the piston slapping around. Never ridden a single before, so maybe it's normal? It's a bit unearving as it sounds like the engine is trying to destroy itself. I must admit I am getting a little ticked off with these Enfield 'quirks'. "Oh, it's just character". No it's not, it's a poorly built machine.

 

[Data]

To add, ma

While you're in there. might be a good idea to check the torque of the head bolts, and the 4 bolts that hold the cam cover down.

Nope, I really wouldn't touch the head bolts if there is no sign of a head gasket weep. Really isn't required & can lead to issues if not done correctly. Head bolts require multiple torque & angle settings per bolt at the factory. Accidentally, it's easy to move one or two of them & muck up. They will also be stretch to torque which on alloy motors of this type should never be tampered with on an in service healthy motor. I've seen an apprentice or two do just that in our workshop & regret it.

 

[LIGuy]

When I accelerate a little harder on my Meteor 350, it sounds like someone shaking a tin of beens inside a shoebox. Or like 2LZ says, like the piston slapping around. Never ridden a single before, so maybe it's normal? It's a bit unearving as it sounds like the engine is trying to destroy itself. I must admit I am getting a little ticked off with these Enfield 'quirks'. "Oh, it's just character". No it's not, it's a poorly built machine.

The 350 is hardly a poorly built machine, quite the contrary...... it is almost indestructible
Millions of engines cant be wrong

 

[SteveMeteor350]

The 350 is hardly a poorly built machine, quite the contrary...... it is almost indestructible
Millions of engines cant be wrong

Ok, I retract the poorly built bit until I put a few more miles on it.

 

[Data]

When I accelerate a little harder on my Meteor 350, it sounds like someone shaking a tin of beens inside a shoebox. Or like 2LZ says, like the piston slapping around. Never ridden a single before, so maybe it's normal? It's a bit unearving as it sounds like the engine is trying to destroy itself. I must admit I am getting a little ticked off with these Enfield 'quirks'. "Oh, it's just character". No it's not, it's a poorly built machine.

The main issue folks have to get used to is it's an air/oil cooled engine! An engine of this type will never be as quiet as a liquid cooled motor. It doesn't have a water jacket to cushion the engine sounds for one thing. Secondly, air cooled engines do tend to run hotter. For this reason the engine must have bigger clearances inside the motor on many of its moving parts. Pistons, rings, valve guides, valve clearances etc etc all have bigger clearances to allow for the greater expansion of these metal components. This makes them noisier still! It's normal, it's ok. Noise is your friend, it means the motor won't seize. It's the very quiet bikes you need to worry about. It shouldn't be very quiet.

These RE motors are not poorly built. Quality control at the factory is superb as far as I can see. My own RE dealer sells these bikes by the truck load every month & has done so for over 4 yrs. As yet he hasn't ever had to strip one of these motors down, even high mileage ones. My own Meteor is quite noisy. Am I worried? Nope!

 

[SteveMeteor350]

The main issue folks have to get used to is it's an air/oil cooled engine! An engine of this type will never be as quiet as a liquid cooled motor. It doesn't have a water jacket to cushion the engine sounds for one thing. Secondly, air cooled engines do tend to run hotter. For this reason the engine must have bigger clearances inside the motor on many of its moving parts. Pistons, rings, valve guides, valve clearances etc etc all have bigger clearances to allow for the greater expansion of these metal components. This makes them noisier still! It's normal, it's ok. Noise is your friend, it means the motor won't seize. It's the very quiet bikes you need to worry about. It shouldn't be very quiet.

These RE motors are not poorly built. Quality control at the factory is superb as far as I can see. My own RE dealer sells these bikes by the truck load every month & has done so for over 4 yrs. As yet he hasn't ever had to strip one of these motors down, even high mileage ones. My own Meteor is quite noisy. Am I worried? Nope!

Thanks, that all makes a lot of sense.

 

[Data]

Thanks, that all makes a lot of sense.

You're welcome! It's not uncommon for folks to worry a bit about air cooled motors of any brand. Especially these bigger motors. My friend bought a Bennelli 400 some while ago. It's air/oil cooled & very noisy. He worried non stop about it, even not sleeping some nights because he thought he had a dud. I explained stuff to him & eventually he stopped worrying. He's now done over 20,000 trouble free miles on it. It's slightly quieter if anything now as the whole engine is now not just fully run in but fully conformed (everything inside the motor fitting nicely together now).

 

[SteveMeteor350]

You're welcome! It's not uncommon for folks to worry a bit about air cooled motors of any brand. Especially these bigger motors. My friend bought a Bennelli 400 some while ago. It's air/oil cooled & very noisy. He worried non stop about it, even not sleeping some nights because he thought he had a dud. I explained stuff to him & eventually he stopped worrying. He's now done over 20,000 trouble free miles on it. It's slightly quieter if anything now as the whole engine is now not just fully run in but fully conformed (everything inside the motor fitting nicely together now).

Funny you saying about your friend. I was starting to think I had a bit of a lemon. I guess I just need to give it time until it's properly run in.

 

[2LZ]

When I accelerate a little harder on my Meteor 350, it sounds like someone shaking a tin of beens inside a shoebox. Or like 2LZ says, like the piston slapping around. Never ridden a single before, so maybe it's normal? It's a bit unearving as it sounds like the engine is trying to destroy itself. I must admit I am getting a little ticked off with these Enfield 'quirks'. "Oh, it's just character". No it's not, it's a poorly built machine.

Then sell it. If I was unhappy with all four of my RE's, I'd sell them too.
As Data says, air cooled engines make noise. My old VW's were rattle traps.

 

[2LZ]

Been all over the web searching. Apparently it's the normal balance shaft noise because there's some lash there. Guess i better get used to it. I'll be trying different oil, etc.... I really love riding the thing. It's not going anywhere, anytime soon. Gets tons of attention too.

 

[2LZ]

Ok.....took it into town yesterday, as posted in another thread. The rattle seems to go away at a certain temp or time, on its own. For about five miles yesterday, it was as mechanically quiet as a Honda 90. I was really enjoying the sound of the DNA intake plate, decat pipe and new muffler....until it decided to come back again.

I'm not convinced it's the balance shaft gears. I can't help but think it's because of a lean running situation (heat), mandated by EPA/Euro/CARB. This has to be why it comes and goes. If it was a true mechanical cause (like the balance shaft gears), then it would be happening all the time. When I idle it at cold start, it's nice and solid sounding. After I bring it back hot, it has a thrashy, mechanically noisy idle (that I've heard in many videos).

I'll be rechecking the valves in a day or so (tank's finally down to one bar) and pull the plug to check the color. The air is thinner at my elevation, so I'm wondering if that has something to do with the metering or is accentuating the rattle.

Question to the masses: Did anyone notice if the rattle lessened after installing a Fuel-X and fatten up the mixture some, making the bike run cooler?

 

[iowa al]

On my Classic, at 2000 miles I did the DNA set up, decat pipe, and FuelX lite all at once. I have never heard the noise in the vid, but maybe I'm just deaf to it. My understanding is, if you do the DNA or decat alone, you don't need to do anything. When you do both, you need to richen the mixture. The FuelX systems are the only ones I'm familiar with. I did the FuelX lite as much for peace of mind than anything. I have 11,800 trouble free miles on mine, and am hoping to get to 15,000 this summer. By the way, the plug looks great in mine. Elevation where I live is 1100 feet if that makes a difference.
My Super Meteor has the DNA, FuelX lite, and slip on Rhinos. I trailered it to Denver, took it off the trailer, and road it to the top of a 14,000 foot mountain with no troubles.
If it was mine, I would put a FuelX on it.

 

[iowa al]

Don't buy a FuelX off eBay. I bought mine from Hitchcocks. I had some questions, so called Powertronics. The first thing they said was, where did you buy it? I told them. they said okay and answered my question. They said if I had bought it off eBay, they wouldn't talk to me about it. They only warranty if purchased from them or an authorized dealer. Best to buy from a dealer even if they cost more.

 

[disposalist]

I've heard/read a fair bit about FuelX making the engine run cooler not necessarily being good for it?
That the engine is designed to hit certain temperatures and 'burn off' the cylinders to stop 'stuff' building up (my technical rememberings are impressive, no?).
I imagine if you've increased air with a decat and/or DNA filter, then the FuelX is a good accompaniment to return 'balance'?
I guess I'm wondering if the rattle isn't something 'wrong' then 'fixing' it might not be a good idea?

 

[Data]

It's important to Dyno the bike to analyse performance & emissions after fitting fuelx. Any tech worth his or her salt will tell you to do this. Don't rely on everything being ok. It can make the bike run slightly cooler by adding more fuel. But this also can make your bike dirty it's oil a lot more quickly if the mixture isn't quite right. It will also wash oil away from the piston & rings if it's running slightly too rich. Honestly, the average owner won't actually know if it's ok unless you Dyno it. Even a tech can find it hard to know.

 

[cwmoss]

My first J series bike was a Meteor, that was about 4 years ago. I sold it because I just couldn't get used to the forward controls. I have since had a Signals edition and a Hunter. They all ran great for what they were, but there was something in the way I sat, or fit on them that, after a few months, didn't like, and sold them. I now have a 350 Bullet, and after a seat change and installing bar ends, just fits. This was just a long way of saying I have been on 4 of the bikes and all have had the "rattle", when you put the engine under a bit of a load, as when going up thru the gears. I hear it and it should not, in my opinion, be there, but it is just a characteristic of the motor. Just cruising down the highway at a constant speed, not there, only when you put some load on it. That is all.

 

[disposalist]

My first J series bike was a Meteor, that was about 4 years ago. I sold it because I just couldn't get used to the forward controls. I have since had a Signals edition and a Hunter. They all ran great for what they were, but there was something in the way I sat, or fit on them that, after a few months, didn't like, and sold them. I now have a 350 Bullet, and after a seat change and installing bar ends, just fits. This was just a long way of saying I have been on 4 of the bikes and all have had the "rattle", when you put the engine under a bit of a load, as when going up thru the gears. I hear it and it should not, in my opinion, be there, but it is just a characteristic of the motor. Just cruising down the highway at a constant speed, not there, only when you put some load on it. That is all.

(I'll say it quietly just to you because it might upset some, but, yeah, the Bullet is definitely the best )

All the bikes I've ridden or heard on YouTube have the issue. It's sometimes less audible than others because people record the audio in different ways. Once you know what you are listening for, you can hear it.

It seems that those that 'don't hear it' are just used to it or expecting it, so it's just 'engine noise'.

An owner of an RE dealership told me it's just the normal sound of these engines and he's sold over a thousand now and none have had any engine problems.

 

[smilespergallon]

I heard the rattle!

While out riding I heard that rattle finally. I was going slower than normal while in one gear higher than normal and heard the rattle.

Sounds like an engine to me, I picked up the revs and it went away. But that just might be because I have smaller hills than others on here. For what it's worth, I tend to ride the bike in the 4-5k range rather than 3-4k on the tacho.

 

[disposalist]

I heard the rattle!

While out riding I heard that rattle finally. I was going slower than normal while in one gear higher than normal and heard the rattle.

Sounds like an engine to me, I picked up the revs and it went away. But that just might be because I have smaller hills than others on here. For what it's worth, I tend to ride the bike in the 4-5k range rather than 3-4k on the tacho.

I would have thought riding higher in the revs will mean it happens less often and/or to a lesser degree, but I find it still happens at anything but 'gentle' load at any revs, really.

It's certainly a 'load' thing and so 'labouring' the engine - low revs and high gear stylee - should effectively 'overload' and cause it more reliably? I don't know enough about the reasons for the noise to know if labouring is 'the same' as conventional loading that causes it, though I would have thought so.

As a matter of interest, I will pay attention next time I'm out or even try and reproduce. What a fun life I lead!

P.S. I have constant 'hills' wherever I ride, since I'm over 250lbs ;^)

 

[smilespergallon]

We are of similar mass, so I feel you on how even an incline can be considered a hill.

It did indeed happen to me in the 3000ish RPM range along a stretch where I would usually be up around 4k. I had slowed for construction and did not backshift to accommodate the change because these bikes have torque everywhere on the dial, but there was a hill right afterward as I was trying to get back up to speed and that's when I heard it. 'Low' revs, hard work... I tried a few times on the way home and could reproduce it by loading up the motor more than I usually do at certain points in the ride. Take into account that 2LZ rides about a quarter mile in the sky above me, that he is down-gearing while I consider up-gearing, his hills are much steeper than mine, and I think we're on the trail of his being noticeable and mine not as much.

With Pyle's stark white spark plug, I think we just might have our first solid evidence for the 'overheating symptoms' Fuel-X thread. Depending on if Fuel-X can make it go away or not, but experimentation is the fun part of learning.