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Armored clothes yea or nay ?

Roy Gavin

Well travelled
Did you notice the bit that says that /2 motorcycle back protectors actually meet the requirement for equestrian back protectors,
Must have been fun reading for some!
Wonder why F9 didn't mention it!
 

smilespergallon

Well travelled
Location
Durham, NC
Again, it's like apples and oranges when you consider the differential in falling off a horse to falling off a bike. And he didn't mention it because he uses a backpack with airbag and hardplate protector way better than ANY of that.

Or did you miss all the places where he says this is HIS decision making process and not what you should do? Because I think maybe you missed the entire context of the video. Or you're just complaining to complain, I went through that stage of life for a while myself. It's okay, things get better in time. And worse, but usually better overall.
 

Eatmore Mudd

Moderator
Staff member
Again, it's like apples and oranges when you consider the differential in falling off a horse to falling off a bike. And he didn't mention it because he uses a backpack with airbag and hardplate protector way better than ANY of that.

Or did you miss all the places where he says this is HIS decision making process and not what you should do? Because I think maybe you missed the entire context of the video. Or you're just complaining to complain, I went through that stage of life for a while myself. It's okay, things get better in time. And worse, but usually better overall.
I went through it too. I think we all do sooner or later.
 

Roy Gavin

Well travelled
Again, it's like apples and oranges when you consider the differential in falling off a horse to falling off a bike. And he didn't mention it because he uses a backpack with airbag and hardplate protector way better than ANY of that.

Or did you miss all the places where he says this is HIS decision making process and not what you should do? Because I think maybe you missed the entire context of the video. Or you're just complaining to complain, I went through that stage of life for a while myself. It's okay, things get better in time. And worse, but usually better overall.
if the entire context of the vidio is not that supreme intellects like F9 remove the armor from their gear then perhaps I have misread it.
So perhaps someone can explain to me what F9s point is in the video?
Yes, there are a few weasel words , probably added on advice from others, and apologies in the comments, but the message in the vid seemed clear, folks who keep their CE2 armor are April fools! His actual words!
 

Bluestrom13

Well travelled
Location
- - 'Coventry'
His opening statement..."Quote"...
"Hello. As a gear retailer this is going to sound like some April Fool's joke - And it is, but not on you...."
So he's told me (us) that we're not the target. - which rather defeats the joke?

Point of the video...And this is only "MY OPINION." He stirred the pot, and it worked. No controversy, no action.

The bloke F9 misquoted?
This from the BikeSocial Video.
PAUL V Comments.png
(He is concerned about the context in which the quotes are used,
having always advocated the use of body armour/protectors).

And this the same fellow speaking in 2020.
Did any of his recommendations get implimented? Is this the point of F9's video?
 
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Roy Gavin

Well travelled
His opening statement..."Quote"...
"Hello. As a gear retailer this is going to sound like some April Fool's joke - And it is, but not on you...."
So he's told me (us) that we're not the target. - which rather defeats the joke?

Point of the video...And this is only "MY OPINION." He stirred the pot, and it worked. No controversy, no action.

The bloke F9 misquoted?
This from the BikeSocial Video.
View attachment 16035
(He is concerned about the context in which the quotes are used,
having always advocated the use of body armour/protectors).

And this the same fellow speaking in 2020.
Did any of his recommendations get implimented? Is this the point of F9's video?
If it was it wouldn't been hard for him to say so!
And a quote taken out of context is a miss quote , in most folks opinion.
 

Eatmore Mudd

Moderator
Staff member
All the so called facts and assumptions in Ryan's posts have already been thoroughly discredited somewhere, some by the person he claims to quote.
And his " subjective opinion" was based on the discredited INCORRECT facts!
He just got his facts wrong, pure and simple!

Duty of care is a Civil common/natural law concept , and has been enforced in the US by the widow of a member of a NY VFR forum who died as a result of incorrect advice on the forum.
She did not pursue the forum, but one member who she knew had the resources to extinguish her multi million dollar claim.
And he had not been the poster, he had only remained silent when it was posted.
Every claim is different, that is why we have courts and lawyers, but the concept remains, post rubbish at your and everyone else's peril if they fail to correct it.
It has already been suggested that we put this topic to bed, it really is time that advice was followed!
Where are the mods when you need them!
"We all have a legally enforceable duty of care to anyone who reads this forum, and if we are to do our duty Ryan's link should be deleted immediately."

Again: Maybe you have a duty in your country. The rest of us do not. Twice now you've asserted that we do.

If it is a fact as you say then please do us the favor by posting the title, chapter and section of the US Code where "Duty of Care", as you assert, is codified. Many of us would be appreciative and grateful for your dedication and due diligence, myself included.
 
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Roy Gavin

Well travelled
It is civil, not criminal law, and does not depend on any particular statute.
I did not say it was in any code, just that the concept had been used to successfully pursue a forum member .
Just how the attorney involved was able to do so is a different question, and will only be contained in the record of the judgement, which I do not have access to.
 
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Wintrup

Well travelled
Location
Cumbria UK
"We all have a legally enforceable duty of care to anyone who reads this forum, and if we are to do our duty Ryan's link should be deleted immediately."

Again: Maybe you have a duty in your country. The rest of us do not. Twice now you've asserted that we do.

If it is a fact as you say then please do us the favor by posting the title, chapter and section of the US Code where "Duty of Care", as you assert, is codified. Many of us would be appreciative and grateful for your dedication and due diligence, myself included.
I agree whole heartedly with you EM. It's bad enough self censoring to avoid upsetting blokes here, now we have to self censor in case some ambulance chaser reads a post and sees dollar signs.

Over the years I've witnessed a heavily imposed, feminised, risk resistent culture of "health & safety", which has grown out of the ever expanding, never satisfied, progressive socialism that has infected nearly every nook and cranny of our culture. We were warned about the nanny state and now we have it. Far too many grown men show no shame about their weakness, that's the kicker. They find a way to make being risk adverse sound virtuous. We don't fight petty tyrants and despots anymore, we conform, we acquiesce, or worse, agree and enforce for them.

I'm happy to have observed, against all the odds, many, many young people who loathe this emasculating culture as much as I do, but it's still pervasive among boomers of my age.

I will never forget the mass hysteria of 2020 as long as I live. That year, and 2021, exemplified just how much masculinity has been devalued, demonised even. Those who didn't conform with the hive mind were vilified. Even today I often see grown men, usually over 60s,walking around town centres with masks on. It's truly pitiful to see.

I wear protective gear because spending weeks in hospital isn't something I enjoy doing. At 16 I snapped a leg that almost lost me my job because of the time I was forced to take off. And having a full leg cast sucks, so I ride carefully to try to avoid such incidents. Injuries, and I've had a few broken bones and road rashes, are a huge inconvenience more than anything else. But I totally understand that 20 isn't 60 and young men best learn the hard way, like I did.
 

Walkabout Tim

Well travelled
Location
windyana u.s.a.
I agree whole heartedly with you EM. It's bad enough self censoring to avoid upsetting blokes here, now we have to self censor in case some ambulance chaser reads a post and sees dollar signs.

Over the years I've witnessed a heavily imposed, feminised, risk resistent culture of "health & safety", which has grown out of the ever expanding, never satisfied, progressive socialism that has infected nearly every nook and cranny of our culture. We were warned about the nanny state and now we have it. Far too many grown men show no shame about their weakness, that's the kicker. They find a way to make being risk adverse sound virtuous. We don't fight petty tyrants and despots anymore, we conform, we acquiesce, or worse, agree and enforce for them.

I'm happy to have observed, against all the odds, many, many young people who loathe this emasculating culture as much as I do, but it's still pervasive among boomers of my age.

I will never forget the mass hysteria of 2020 as long as I live. That year, and 2021, exemplified just how much masculinity has been devalued, demonised even. Those who didn't conform with the hive mind were vilified. Even today I often see grown men, usually over 60s,walking around town centres with masks on. It's truly pitiful to see.

I wear protective gear because spending weeks in hospital isn't something I enjoy doing. At 16 I snapped a leg that almost lost me my job because of the time I was forced to take off. And having a full leg cast sucks, so I ride carefully to try to avoid such incidents. Injuries, and I've had a few broken bones and road rashes, are a huge inconvenience more than anything else. But I totally understand that 20 isn't 60 and young men best learn the hard way, like I did.
Well put !! Cheers .
 

Turbofurball

Well travelled
Location
Catalunya
I agree whole heartedly with you EM. It's bad enough self censoring to avoid upsetting blokes here, now we have to self censor in case some ambulance chaser reads a post and sees dollar signs. (Is that the only reason to avoid spreading misinformation?)

Over the years I've witnessed a heavily imposed, feminised, risk resistent culture of "health & safety", which has grown out of the ever expanding, never satisfied, progressive socialism that has infected nearly every nook and cranny of our culture. (This would be the Health and Safety culture that's been pushed forward by those well known Socialists in the Conservative Party just as much as any other government of the last 40 years?) We were warned about the nanny state and now we have it. (Warned about the nanny state by people who would prefer not to be constrained by having to be nice to poor people, I'm guessing) Far too many grown men show no shame about their weakness, that's the kicker. (This is unfortunately untrue, many men guard their weaknesses so strongly they'd rather kill themselves rather than open up to someone about how they feel) They find a way to make being risk adverse sound virtuous. (Because actually weighing up one's actions before committing to doing dangerous things is for wusses?) We don't fight petty tyrants and despots anymore, we conform, we acquiesce, or worse, agree and enforce for them. (On this I absolutely agree, someone should do something about petty despots, though I suspect we'd disagree about who those despots are)

I'm happy to have observed, against all the odds, many, many young people who loathe this emasculating culture as much as I do, but it's still pervasive among boomers of my age. (Like the followers of Andrew Tate? Yes, thank goodness for their contribution to society)

I will never forget the mass hysteria of 2020 as long as I live. That year, and 2021, exemplified just how much masculinity has been devalued, demonised even. Those who didn't conform with the hive mind were vilified. Even today I often see grown men, usually over 60s,walking around town centres with masks on. It's truly pitiful to see. (Absolutely, old people should just die from respiratory illnesses. How dare they have weak immune systems when they get old!)

I wear protective gear because spending weeks in hospital isn't something I enjoy doing. At 16 I snapped a leg that almost lost me my job because of the time I was forced to take off. And having a full leg cast sucks, so I ride carefully to try to avoid such incidents. Injuries, and I've had a few broken bones and road rashes, are a huge inconvenience more than anything else. But I totally understand that 20 isn't 60 and young men best learn the hard way, like I did. (And who paid for all your medical care? I bet it was those dirty socialist nanny staters you loathe so much ... a real man would have refused hospital treatment!)
I added some notes. Oh by the way, they let people who aren't men ride motorbikes now too - amazing, I know.
 

Aitrus

Well travelled
Location
Georgia, USA
This thread is a perfect example of why I'm so glad I live in America, where freedom of speech (the cornerstone of Western culture, innovation, and problem solving) isn't limited by whether or not somebody else takes offense at what I say. I'm not made responsible for the ignorance, irrational fears, or subjective emotions of others in some ephemeral "duty of care" nonsense. Nobody has a right to not be offended, and their fears do not outweigh any of my rights.

As Dr. Jordan Peterson would say, "In order to think, you have to risk being offensive."

Also important: "Remember, it is not enough to be hit or insulted to be harmed, you must believe that you are being harmed. If someone succeeds in provoking you, realize that your mind is complicit in the provocation." - Epictetus
 

Roy Gavin

Well travelled
This thread is a perfect example of why I'm so glad I live in America, where freedom of speech (the cornerstone of Western culture, innovation, and problem solving) isn't limited by whether or not somebody else takes offense at what I say. I'm not made responsible for the ignorance, irrational fears, or subjective emotions of others in some ephemeral "duty of care" nonsense. Nobody has a right to not be offended, and their fears do not outweigh any of my rights.

As Dr. Jordan Peterson would say, "In order to think, you have to risk being offensive."

Also important: "Remember, it is not enough to be hit or insulted to be harmed, you must believe that you are being harmed. If someone succeeds in provoking you, realize that your mind is complicit in the provocation." - Epictetus
Duty of care is not nonsense, it is a simple legal fact which can be verified if anyone has a mind to do so.
I have expressed no support for the concept , I have simply stated that it exists and should not be ignored.
All my posts have done is to try to alert those who are not aware of it to the dangers to themselves, and us all, if we do not exercise our duty.
F9 claims some Engineering qualification , and if so his training will have included the requirements for verifiable testing and also law as it relates to his profession.
So if he actually has engineering qualifications he willfully chose to ignore both in that post , which in my opinion is either contempt for anyone who might view his vid, or crass imbecility .
But that is just my opinion , please try not to get too excited when someone has an opinion you do not agree with.
Facts might even be an adequate rebuttal , if anyone has any.
 

Turbofurball

Well travelled
Location
Catalunya
This thread is a perfect example of why I'm so glad I live in America, where freedom of speech (the cornerstone of Western culture, innovation, and problem solving) isn't limited by whether or not somebody else takes offense at what I say. I'm not made responsible for the ignorance, irrational fears, or subjective emotions of others in some ephemeral "duty of care" nonsense. Nobody has a right to not be offended, and their fears do not outweigh any of my rights.

As Dr. Jordan Peterson would say, "In order to think, you have to risk being offensive."

Also important: "Remember, it is not enough to be hit or insulted to be harmed, you must believe that you are being harmed. If someone succeeds in provoking you, realize that your mind is complicit in the provocation." - Epictetus
That would be the same America where a lawsuit was successfully filed against a forum poster? Or is it the same America where people have been shot while conducting peaceful protests? Yes, such free speech, very brave.

Jordan Peterson's philosophical musings have all the depth of a puddle, in this case the only thing I'm feeling offended by is the lack of thought being displayed by some of the American members here. Bikers should be looking out for one another, instead it would appear that many here want to encourage younger people to recreate our mistakes rather than help them learn from them.
 
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